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Thread: Extreme STOL/VTOL homebuilt

  1. #31
    Registered User rtfm's Avatar
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    Re: Extreme STOL/VTOL homebuilt

    Hi,
    One of the most elegant VTOL/STOL aircraft designs I have come across is the tilt-body design by Freewing Unmanned Systems LLC (http://www.freewing.com/)

    The transition from near vertical lift to full forward flight is gradual, manageable and seems to work like a charm. I can't see any obvious reason why this can't be adapted to a full-sized aircraft...

    Perhaps there are ideas you can borrow from this design.

    Regards,
    Duncan
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Extreme STOL/VTOL homebuilt-buildup.jpg   Extreme STOL/VTOL homebuilt-shephardcovershot.jpg  

  2. #32
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    Re: Extreme STOL/VTOL homebuilt

    That UAV is cool!

    I guess this thread is pretty well hijacked...

    As has already been said, I didn't knock your idea Holden, I honestly want you to get out there and do it. The industry really does need innovators. What I have a problem with is your attitude that EVERYBODY should be an innovator.

    As PTAirco said, the majority of individuals building aircraft are doing it for pleasure, not to make a squillion dollars. For me, flying is a hobby, always has been, and probably always will be. My day-to-day is as a Fitter and Turner in a textile mill. If I, and everyone like me, dropped everything to invent new types of airplanes, you probably wouldn't have clothes to wear. We all play a part in the real world, and I will say that I've never truly enjoyed anything I've done for a living. Not because the jobs have been bad, but because I've always worked for bosses. I COULD go work in the aviation industry if I wanted to, but I would still be working for a boss. That for me would take the fun out of it. I could also try starting my own business and being my own boss. I'd still think the boss was a prick . As a result of all this I've chosen to keep doing what I do for a living, and never let stress get to me (I've got two hands and eight hours, I'll do what I can do), and keep aviation as a relaxing passtime.

    On another note, about the idea of "Incremental Development" versus "Instant Future"...

    How do you eat an Elephant?




    One bite at a time.




    If you try to swallow it whole, you are probably going to choke.


    Thats the way I approach projects/challenges/jobs. Not saying you have to do it the same way, but it works really well for me. I don't look at a project as a project on its own, I look at it as lots of little projects that come together to produce the end result.

  3. #33
    Registered User rtfm's Avatar
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    Re: Extreme STOL/VTOL homebuilt

    Holden,
    Hi. I have met excessively bright people in my lifetime - and you MAY be one of them. I have also met angry people. You seem definitely to be one of THEM. But bright and angry is disturbing.

    The guys on this forum have been nothing but gracious. Even in the face of your strident accusations. They have largely ignored your rantings, and tried to focus on the positives. If you find us so useless, so dull - then go away. Just leave. I, for one, don't find your rantings helpful. I'd prefer it if you found another soap-box.

    Having said that - I have to reiterate my best wishes on your design adventure. Build it, and they will come. With the emphasis on the building part...

    Duncan

  4. #34
    Site Developer Jman's Avatar
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    Re: Extreme STOL/VTOL homebuilt

    Well folks, I love spirited discussion as much as the next guy BUT, as you may have noticed, I had to use my administrative powers to trim out a few statements and posts that were not in keeping with the HBA Code of Conduct. It's a rare thing, but it does happen from time to time. Taking a softer tone can go a long way toward strengthening a persons arguments.

    Another thing I'd like to highlight is that this site was created to help spur innovation as much as it was to help the average homebuilder. I would just ask that we look at the merit of ideas based on what is written and not try to project the failure of others onto them. Because someone has ideas similar to a failed idea or scam does not mean that person is automatically lumped into that category.

    We now return to your regular programing.....

  5. #35
    Registered User bmcj's Avatar
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    Re: Extreme STOL/VTOL homebuilt

    Quote Originally Posted by rtfm View Post
    bright and angry is disturbing
    Doesn't that describe most of the arch-villains in superhero movies???

  6. #36
    Registered User bmcj's Avatar
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    Re: Extreme STOL/VTOL homebuilt

    Quote Originally Posted by BBerson View Post
    I figure the 18mph is at full power at altitude. With 295hp it can hang on the prop.
    I would tend to agree with you on this point as it relates to the 18 MPH placard.

    Sorry all for taking us off-topic here.

    Bruce

  7. #37
    Rom
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    Re: Extreme STOL/VTOL homebuilt

    Thomas Edison was once asked about the 200 failed attempts he had made in producing one of his inventions. Edison told that person that "those weren't failures but successes, in that I succeeded in discovering 200 ways that it didn't work."
    I have come up with some hair brained schemes in my time, but that is the road in producing innovations that a lot of us are working on in designing our own aircraft.
    We are a minority in the general population. Most people probably think we are all nuts for wanting to build our own airplanes. That is not something most folks would consider doable.
    Personally I don't consider any idea implausible. I say go for it. It might work after 200 attempts.

  8. #38
    Registered User bmcj's Avatar
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    Re: Extreme STOL/VTOL homebuilt

    So Holden, how do we recognize you at the seaplane base?

  9. #39
    Registered User BBerson's Avatar
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    Re: Extreme STOL/VTOL homebuilt

    Here is a video of a C-130 converted to extreme STOL with JATO for lift on takeoff and reverse JATO for landing. Sometimes it works and sometimes....



    This is my idea, but with safer thrust units.

  10. #40
    Registered User billyvray's Avatar
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    Re: Extreme STOL/VTOL homebuilt

    Dredging up an old thread to save starting a new one.
    Here's a video of a ultralight with a bunch of engines. No pilot yet, but cool.





    ~Bill

  11. #41
    Moderator Topaz's Avatar
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    Re: Extreme STOL/VTOL homebuilt

    Quote Originally Posted by billyvray View Post
    Dredging up an old thread to save starting a new one.
    Here's a video of a ultralight with a bunch of engines. No pilot yet, but cool.
    Interesting. He's got a few more vids on YouTube, including a (manned?) takeoff in STOL mode using four engines.

    Anyone have more information on this project?
    "If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them." - Henry James Thoreau

    Design Project: Conceptual Design of an "Inexpensive" Single-Seat Motorglider
    Discussion Thread for the Project: Discussion: Conceptual Design of an "Inexpensive" Single-Seat Motorglider

  12. #42
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    Re: Extreme STOL/VTOL homebuilt

    This is the best extreme STOL/VTOL design.



    I'm not opinionated either
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Extreme STOL/VTOL homebuilt-xf5u1ah_6.jpg  

  13. #43
    Registered User bmcj's Avatar
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    Re: Extreme STOL/VTOL homebuilt

    Quote Originally Posted by billyvray View Post
    Dredging up an old thread to save starting a new one.
    Here's a video of a ultralight with a bunch of engines. No pilot yet, but cool.
    Unmanned? I don't see anyone in the seat.

  14. #44
    Moderator Topaz's Avatar
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    Re: Extreme STOL/VTOL homebuilt

    Quote Originally Posted by bmcj View Post
    Unmanned? I don't see anyone in the seat.
    Yeah. I'm guessing they either don't have enough thrust margin to lift a pilot, or don't really trust their powered-lift control system yet.

    There's another video on their YouTube channel that looks like a manned STOL takeoff with fewer engines.
    "If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them." - Henry James Thoreau

    Design Project: Conceptual Design of an "Inexpensive" Single-Seat Motorglider
    Discussion Thread for the Project: Discussion: Conceptual Design of an "Inexpensive" Single-Seat Motorglider

  15. #45
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    Re: Extreme STOL/VTOL homebuilt

    Starman,

    I agree.

    But why is it so good?

    As I see it, it is because most of the wing is behind the prop.

    The flying pancake made the span small and the prop large. The "wing" is all behind the prop and is therefore in "dynamic" air.

    In contrast, a typical STOL has a large span and small prop. The prop only hits a small part of the wing and mostly it is confused by a non aerodynamic (lifting) fuselage.

    Lesson learned? Put most of the wing behind the prop.

    Problems in doing so? Stall, pitch moments, stability in high AOA, and sudden power off control and prop blocking, not to mention a lot of other things.


    Holden.

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