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Thread: Rotax and direct injection!

  1. #1
    Registered User erkki67's Avatar
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    Rotax and direct injection!

    Rotax 600 HO E-TEC is a great engine with great performances, but why the heck can't we profit also from this new technology????

    The 582 is a gorgeous engine too, but ways too thirsty, as it looks by almost 40% more then the 600 HO E-TEC.

    Bst rgds

    Erkki

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    Re: Rotax and direct injection!

    Hi Erkki funny to find you here I was precisly looking for more info on this engine
    My concern about the possibility to put a PSRU (rotax gear C beeing the simplest) is the exit shaft , is it the same diameter / cone shape than other rotax (582...) ? gearbox must be put with crank gear
    assorted to gearbox
    also I see a crank seal which may prevent from making a adaptor to bolt between gearbox and engine case?
    (I see also that engine height is greater .. can it be reversed? )

    Rotax and direct injection!-600.jpg
    Last edited by altifly; May 11th, 2013 at 06:53 AM.

  3. #3
    Registered User erkki67's Avatar
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    Re: Rotax and direct injection!

    I belive this engine could be a good successor of the 582, but the engine data must be known like rpm egt and cht.

    I wrote Rotax, and they wrote me back, stating that a new block would be by far too expensive for them to develop, hmmm????

    But as far as I understand, this block had to be created as well, out of zero!!!

    Any kind of adaptions, for an psru, would make it look like a garage built system, and nothing I would like to thrust in.

    The unwritten message I got from R, is the following, that they are not interested at all, to bring a E-TEC engine to the flying community as they would like promote their new released spiderweb like 912 injected engine.

    The 600 E-TEC would be a serious threat to their own 912 series which just can't be.

    Bst rgds

    Erkki

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    Re: Rotax and direct injection!

    Hi !
    I just saw a picture with one of these daemonious mount , that's actually impossible to consider seriously..

    Rotax and direct injection!-898768yamahagenesis.jpg

    One candidate may be more likely , arctic cat f1000 , offering 5 bolting points (would it be enough ,their distance is not so much?) . and dual plug
    Rotax and direct injection!-130512010443793699.jpg

    derating it by 100% (dividing power /2) would still offer 80hp
    Don't know weight...
    Last edited by altifly; May 13th, 2013 at 06:15 AM.

  5. #5
    Registered User erkki67's Avatar
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    Re: Rotax and direct injection!

    Still, coolest would be by far if Rotax could warm them selfs up to rebuild an engine block, based on the 600 E-TEC, for the flying community.

    But it's more realistic that I would meet some day Santa Claus, then that Rotax is going to build such a light 2-stroke E-TEC engine for us!

    Erkki

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    Re: Rotax and direct injection!

    Does anyone know if a redrive kit for 582 will work for 600 ho etec? Also, any idea if all you need is the ECU to run the motor, or if you need other stuff too? I hope they're not fly by wire.

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    Re: Rotax and direct injection!

    Quote Originally Posted by erkki67 View Post
    Rotax 600 HO E-TEC is a great engine with great performances, but why the heck can't we profit also from this new technology????

    The 582 is a gorgeous engine too, but ways too thirsty, as it looks by almost 40% more then the 600 HO E-TEC.

    Bst rgds

    Erkki
    ================================================== =======

    First, you have to understand the e-Tec Technology. Use's Direct Injection, there is No Direction Injection head designed for older Rotax's. Best thing you could do it adapt Hirth Fuel Injection. e-Tec's use Sealed Crank Bearings(Grease) older engines use Oil.

    The 600 e-tec is rated 125hp at 8000rpms I think. Derated to 6500rpms, it would make around 90-95hp.

    All the newer 2000+ Skidoo/Rotax e-Tec's use a PTO 33mm 1:7.5 different from older Rotax's that used a 30mm 1:10 PTO.

    As of right now, no one has made an Adapter Plate for the 4 or 5 Bolt pattern for the Arctic Cats, or the Rotax e-Tec's. You can use a Belt Drive if you can use it upside down, like on a Challenger.

    The Skidoo 1993-1999 670(92hp@6500rpms) would be easier to convert.

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    Re: Rotax and direct injection!

    Quote Originally Posted by altifly View Post
    Hi Erkki funny to find you here I was precisly looking for more info on this engine
    My concern about the possibility to put a PSRU (rotax gear C beeing the simplest) is the exit shaft , is it the same diameter / cone shape than other rotax (582...) ? gearbox must be put with crank gear
    assorted to gearbox
    also I see a crank seal which may prevent from making a adaptor to bolt between gearbox and engine case?
    (I see also that engine height is greater .. can it be reversed? )

    Attachment 24161
    ==================================================

    For the HP of the 600 e-Tec you would need to use the C or E Gear Drive. The front Bearings Seal Plate would be removed, and the Adapter Plate would Double as the Seal Plate. You would want to use the RK400 Clutch also.

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    Re: Rotax and direct injection!

    Quote Originally Posted by erkki67 View Post
    I belive this engine could be a good successor of the 582, but the engine data must be known like rpm egt and cht.

    I wrote Rotax, and they wrote me back, stating that a new block would be by far too expensive for them to develop, hmmm????

    But as far as I understand, this block had to be created as well, out of zero!!!

    Any kind of adaptions, for an psru, would make it look like a garage built system, and nothing I would like to thrust in.

    The unwritten message I got from R, is the following, that they are not interested at all, to bring a E-TEC engine to the flying community as they would like promote their new released spiderweb like 912 injected engine.

    The 600 E-TEC would be a serious threat to their own 912 series which just can't be.

    Bst rgds

    Erkki
    ================================================== =============

    It will never happen, Rotax is getting out of the 2 Stroke market. A Billet Case could be designed, and CNC machined.

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    Re: Rotax and direct injection!

    Quote Originally Posted by cheesefactory View Post
    Does anyone know if a redrive kit for 582 will work for 600 ho etec? Also, any idea if all you need is the ECU to run the motor, or if you need other stuff too? I hope they're not fly by wire.
    =================================================

    Yes, you would need the ECU, but it has a Limp mode for Sleds built in, that you don't want on a Plane. So best to use an aftermarket ECU. It would probably be easier to convert a 670 with a Provision 8 Case with Fuel Injection. There was a guy in Nebraska making Billet 670 Heads.

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    Re: Rotax and direct injection!

    here the newest E-TEC engine with an additional injector
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1LoVKaC8Ds

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    Registered User Beragoobruce's Avatar
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    Re: Rotax and direct injection!

    When I was researching engines in this power range I finished up buying the MZ202.

    At 625cc it develops good torque & power at lower rpm. It is forced fan air cooled, meaning the frontal area, weight, & hassle of water cooling is avoided. And best of all, it is 26 lbs lighter than the 582 not including the 582's radiator & coolant weight.

    It is used in many of the Mosquito helicopters, so is well able to withstand continuous ops at high power.

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